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Propeller submits sole proposal for Briscoe

Rendering provided by whyprivatizebriscoe.com

Rendering provided by whyprivatizebriscoe.com

LAWRENCEVILLE — Propeller Airports — the company that has talked about bringing commercial passenger service to Briscoe Field — submitted the sole proposal to become a private partner for the Gwinnett County Airport.

Citing the county’s purchasing rules on discretion, Propeller’s Brett Smith said he could not give details on the boxes of information turned over to the county to be considered for the privatization program

But for three years the company has touted a potential economic boon for investing in the small general aviation field in Lawrenceville.

Many people in the surrounding community have expressed concerns that commercial flights could bring traffic, noise, pollution and other issues, causing commissioners to cautiously move forward with the process and name a citizens group to study the airport’s future.

“Our intention would not be to do something to harm another person,” Smith said, adding that he was glad to finally submit a proposal.

After a now-defunct qualifications process had drawn three companies, Smith said he wasn’t sure how to feel about being the only company to submit paperwork in the current process.

“We hope that we put a sufficient proposal together that makes sense for the residents, and that’s up for the Board of Commissioners to decide,” Smith said. “I’m glad that we got a chance for the county to get a look at the proposal.”

Jim Regan, who has organized opposition to the commercial plans as part of Citizens for a Better Gwinnett, said the lack of interest from other companies may prove privatization isn’t a great idea.

“To me, it’s kind of indicative of the risk that’s been proposed,” he said. “It seems to heighten the risk when you just have one bidder.”

Based on advice from a consultant, commissioners stipulated in the request for proposals that companies submit based on continuing the airport as a general operation field but allowed a description of future plans.

Regan pointed out that Propeller officials said in the past they would not be interested in running the airport without commercial flights.

“I’m kind of at a loss as to how the county plans to go forward at this point,” he said. “If it were a really good thing, there would have been more than one bidder.”

According to the county’s purchasing process, the proposal will be evaluated by officials before a recommendation is given to the Board of Commissioners.

While no deadline has been set for the board to consider the measure, commissioners gave the citizens advisory board a deadline of May 8 to complete its recommendations.

Comments

R 2 years, 2 months ago

"Citing the county’s purchasing rules on discretion, Propeller’s Brett Smith said he could not give details on the boxes of information turned over to the county to be considered for the privatization program" Funny this little barrier didn't stop the collection of resumes LAST year, maybe they were included?

I halfway expect to see this matter on an episode of "Dirty Jobs" that aren't done dirt cheap.

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

The FAA backed study said that the net cost would be $2.223 BILLION, with likely funding ultimately from taxpayer wallets - oh, and almost assured commercial failure, but what the heck. Darn those pesky old facts anyway. The only reasonable opportunity would have been Southwest Airline (which long ago made overtures to Gwinnett), which now flies out of Hartsfield. This is a sucker bet, and citizens are the suckers.

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Karl 2 years, 2 months ago

Your numbers are bogus and you know it. The $2.2B stated in the study you reference has nothing to do with the limited scheduled service proposed. The real number is about $100 million.

Don't let facts get in the way of your diatribe, though.

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

Blog lobbying is cheap - let's see the numbers (aka the mystery plan) and be up-front about costs to the taxpayer. I get really suspicious when I see this large and fervent a gathering of hogs at the trough.

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jack 2 years, 2 months ago

Only $100 million? That's a bargain compared to the stadium deal! Oh, wait a minute, no it's not. My mistake.

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

The study indeed said TWO PLUS BILLION - land acquisition, environmental and legal issues alone (which would still have to happen, regardless of a scaled down plan) were estimated at $215 million to resolve. The study also said: "No supplemental airports developed to primarily serve origination and destination passengers have been a success”. Yup, those pesky facts again!

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Cleanupguy, this post is directed at you. I posted this, below, in response to your continued hot air. I ask you to respond to it since you failed to below. (oh, and the words you are looking for are, "yes, I, cleanupguy, have no idea what I'm talking about")

"It's quite easy to explain why you are wrong about the FAA study. The FAA study was to answer one question: if there were suitable locations in metro atlanta for a 2nd LARGE airport with a 9,000 foot runway, and the answer was no. The LARGE airport would have cost 2 billion.

However, the Briscoe location would not be a large airport. That's why the much smaller cost was being discussed. Apparently Cleanup guy, you didn't bother to learn much or listen much. Either that, or you didn't want to learn or listen and were instead being unreasonable."

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Cleanupguy can u use some of your hot air to respond to this? You failed to down below when I originally posted it. (You may still start with this option too. "I, Cleanupguy, have no idea what I am talking about. I just hear people say stuff and then repeat it)

"It's quite easy to explain why you are wrong about the FAA study. The FAA study was to answer one question: if there were suitable locations in metro atlanta for a 2nd LARGE airport with a 9,000 foot runway, and the answer was no. The LARGE airport would have cost 2 billion.

However, the Briscoe location would not be a large airport. That's why the much smaller cost was being discussed.

Apparently Cleanup guy, you didn't bother to learn much or listen much. Either that, or you didn't want to learn or listen and were instead being unreasonable."

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NewsReader 2 years, 2 months ago

We're all tired of Propeller Investments. We're all tired of Brett Smith. We're all tired of having to continue to fight this business. We don't want it. We never wanted it. We never will want it. We never will embrace it.

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JimmyOrr 2 years, 2 months ago

Fly Hartsfield-Jackson! It is, it has been, and will continue to be your best option for flying to destinations at home and abroad.

James H. (Jimmy) Orr, Jr.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

You three (above) appear petulant and foolish. The large majority of the county does not agree with you.

Gwinnett needs new jobs and growth. Good!

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

One can always spot a nonexistent argument from the hurling of insults. Hmmmm - I wonder where the multitudes that you mention in favor of this have been hiding all this time? Saying that this is the best thing since sliced bread so loudly and often does not make it so, but nice try on the campaigning effort.

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jjbod1 2 years, 2 months ago

Here you go, I am not many but only one person. I live 5 minutes from the airport, and i am all for it ; )

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

Falco, is this the 1499 or 1500th time this has been posted? Did you get a bulk contract? Should be interesting when Bret can finally release his "facts" for all to see, the ones he claimed he'd release in a town hall setting - the one that NEVER occurred. Yep you can promise the sky - if your business plan includes NEVER actually delivering the end product.

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economist 2 years, 2 months ago

This will be huge for the County! It will be the single largest economic development boost that they County has ever had. This is a real game changer. I can't wait until I can drive a few miles down the road, park, and be on a plane to a major city in less than 15 min.

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

Perhaps when pigs fly alongside of the alleged aircraft, that will automagically make it come true. Maybe you might explain where the FAA study was wrong - like: "No supplemental airports developed to primarily serve origination and destination passengers have been a success” and “Without an alternate source of funding for the capital development required for the supplemental airport, the ‘break-even’ airline rates and charges per enplanement that the supplemental airport would have to charge in order to recover the total annual airport operating cost and debt service costs far exceed the rates charged at US commercial air service airports". Also curious where the TWO BILLION to pull this off will come from. Answers?

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citized 2 years, 2 months ago

Didn't I hear the same garbage about stadium?

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

IF by HUGE you mean a HUGE tax Bill after the OPPS - you are most likely CORRECT! LOOK at the sparklie lights... Never mind the man behind the curtain.

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blackhouse 2 years, 2 months ago

I agree with you Economist. It is so odd to me to read the comments on this site comparing this to the stadium, which I live behind. Or the garbage plan. Regardless of what the bid states, the concept of privatization has ZERO in relation to the other two. Privatization means PRIVATE DOLLARS = ZERO TAX DOLLARS. The purpose is to take a current fiscal liability and transform it into a fiscal benefit.

I, also, am a local land-owner. I've watched property values plummet in my neighborhood and houses remain vacant for years. This project is the ONLY thing that has come around since the Mall of GA that brings the prospect of real economic growth and job creation.

Oh, you are probably against that one also. Like this, it was a PRIVATE INVESTMENT. But it has caused all manner of headaches for the locals, I am sure. I know how much I and my kids hate being a 5 minute drive from the best mall in the South; all those JOBS and OPPORTUNITY, not to mention great restaurants, and all the out of County visitors it brings.

Thank Goodness the BOC is finally looking at this. I can't wait til they make it public for the rest of us.

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jack 2 years, 2 months ago

When the private investment goes belly up, guess who'll end up footing the bill?

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

Blackhouse – the airport as it runs RIGHT NOW operates at a surplus so it’s NOT a liability.

The stadium and trash program are listed because they indicate a real recent history of Gwinnett government operations. These programs both COST way more than promised, significantly under delivered on commitments and were done in secret or against the majority of resident voter input and finally, lock us into very expensive, long term contracts.

The airport is NOT the project to “bet on” that will break this trend line.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

It's quite easy to explain why you are wrong about the FAA study. The FAA study was to answer one question: if there were suitable locations in metro atlanta for a 2nd LARGE airport with a 9,000 foot runway, and the answer was no. The LARGE airport would have cost 2 billion.

However, the Briscoe location would not be a large airport. That's why the much smaller cost was being discussed.

Apparently Cleanup guy, you didn't bother to learn much or listen much. Either that, or you didn't want to learn or listen and were instead being unreasonable.

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Karl 2 years, 2 months ago

Thanks for that info Falco, though telling the truth with facts and figures to people like Cleanup Guy and Kevin is futile.

They have their minds made up against any limited schedule service and won't be swayed by facts. Perhaps others with an open mind who are seeking answers will listen, though.

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kevin 2 years, 2 months ago

Here we go again. The BOC requested bids on the privatization of Bricso but what does this company do? Give its proposal for commercial flights. I say you throw out the bid since it didn't meet the requirements in the first place.

NO COMMERCIALIZATION OF BRISCO, PERIOD.

The BOC better gets the message from the voters, like right now, or get thrown out next election. I guess we will see more commissioners bow out of the next race so they don't face disgrace. We told you so!!

No one else bids. KInd of makes you wonder how much Propeller is paying under the table to push this through. The AG needs to investigate those voting Yes for this project.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Kevin is so knowledgeable about the situation that he cannot even spell the name of the airport correctly.

I think it's easy to assume that one cannot even spell the name of the airport correctly that they know very little about the facts of the situation.

Kevin, have you seen the bid? If so, please tell us what's in it. Either that, or will you concede that you have not seen it and have no actual idea what you are talking about?

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blackhouse 2 years, 2 months ago

Can you tell me how you know what was in the submitted bid? Everything I can find online or from the county says it was totally confidential, and I'd love to see it!

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Yes Kevin. Please answer blackhouse's question.

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JimmyOrr 2 years, 2 months ago

Who are we to believe? Propeller, a start-up company, which has never operated an airport, or the FAA which oversees every airport in the United States saying that it would require $2.2 billion to develop Gwinnett County Airport Briscoe Field into a regional airport?

From where I stand, I will put my trust in the FAA. They have absolutely no reason to fudge any of the details on this issue plus the FAA has forgotten more about airport operations than Propeller will ever know.

Fly Hartsfield-Jackson!

James H. (Jimmy) Orr, Jr.

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Karl 2 years, 2 months ago

Now Mr. Orr, I've read your posts in the GDP for years and you usually are reasonable in your comments and I respect what you have to say, though I disagree with you on occasion. This time you are either misinformed or desperately trying to mislead other readers and it surprises me. From you I've come to expect comments with more veracity that what you've written here.

You and I both know good and well the $2.2 billion figure has nothing to do with the proposal for limited scheduled service at Briscoe Field. The proposal estimates $100 Million and the taxpayers will have no liability in the project. The contract can be written in this manner.

I'm disappointed you and a minor, though vocal, group of others are trying to prevent rational inquiry and discussion in the possibility of limited scheduled service.

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

Calling the opposition “minor “will not make it fact, the concern FAR outreaches the local region - as does the very possible increased TAX Liability to GWINNETT county residents.

There is a better prospect by Gainesville GA “Fly Hall Forward”

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Jimmy Orr, the government (FAA) did not conduct a study of a small airport. Only a large one. And concluded a large one wouldn't work. There was no report on a smaller airport. And you know it.

Yet a private business appears to say it will work.

It seems that you are simply biased. You seem like someone who forms opinions, and then makes the facts fit afterward. Disingenuous much?

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

OK, one more time, realizing that what "R" noted will happen yet again - how about the "this has never been successful elsewhere" issue? Why push the second best choice instead of the first (Dobbins was estimated to present twice the ridership as Briscoe)? What are the taxpayer liabilities? I'm with "R" - your self-promotion and rhetoric are cheap and easy, but the still unrevealed specifics and facts would be a nice starting point. Might want to try that route for a change of pace.

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it" Joseph Goebbels (Hitler's Propaganda Minister)

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Funny how when one uses facts and figures, Cleanupguy can't respond with facts and figures. Just whining and excuses.

Hey Cleanupguy, Dobbins airport is a military airport which cannot be leased because the federal government prohibits commercial service there. It's been that way for decades. Briscoe is locally owned and has no such federal restriction, and Gwinnett County government can do with it what it wishes. And the FAA has approved the county's application to do exactly that if they choose to.

Not that you care about an actual answer or facts, though. You have no real facts. And when facts and answers are given to you, you whine and sputter just like you did above.

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

As to Dobbins being" off the table", how fast do you think Military operations could be relocated to facilitate a transfer?

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JimmyOrr 2 years, 2 months ago

Karl, I appreciate your comments. Are you absolutely certain that we taxpayers will/would have no liability in this project? I know some characteristics about Gwinnett County Airport Briscoe Field "inside the fence" so to speak that you may or may not know about. For example, the dual wheel weight limitations of the existing runway, exsiting runway length & width (the width does not meet FAA minimum requirements), major drainage improvements, etc. Did you know that 75% of the storm water that exits the airport comes from off site sources? While the $100 million may cover the expense of the terminal, gates, parking facilities, etc. I do not see this dollar amount as being adequate to cover the costs to retrofit Gwinnett County Airport Briscoe Field to accommodate commercial airline traffic without bond debt incurred by county government. As you well know, all bond incurred by county government puts taxpayers at risk to satisfy payment of said obligations. I fully expect county government to incur bond done to provide for public safety and public works which are the core values of local government. What I am opposed to is county government incurring bond debt to prop up private enterprise. I am from the old school. I am a firm believer in our market driven system of free enterprise supported by private capital investment which allows me to be a participant by purcahsing stock offerings. The airport issue is an issue issue we will have to agree to disagree on. Wish you well. James H. (Jimmy) Orr, Jr.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Jimmy Orr, so you are saying that you would support this proposal if there are no liabilities or debts incurred (bond or otherwise) by Gwinnett County?

Or are you just pretending this is the key issue for you, and if settled you'd support it?

If you respond yes to this, you remain credible. But if you're just raising a fake issue that actually would not affect your vote anyway because you pre-judged it, then frankly you are unveiled and would no longer be credible.

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

A group of us were discussing a public meeting about this that was held at a church a few months ago, and we recall the "minor" group of others quite differently than the lobbyists in this forum. The Propeller Fellers were basically escorted out by the Police - it was pretty obvious that the vast majority present had the sense to see through the smoke.

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NewsReader 2 years, 2 months ago

It is intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that you, Falco, will support this measure no matter what the opposition says. That's fine. Just as you so vehemently support it, we fiercely oppose it. But let's get something straight you pompous windbag. I don't need to give you any reason other than I don't like it, I don't want it, I don't need it, and no matter what you present on the table, I will never support it. There, are you satisfied now? The only fact you need to know is that we don't like/need/want it - PERIOD! All the rest of your bovine bowel movement is inconsequential. You want everybody else to quote facts genius, why don't you demonstrate to the rest of us your source for "...The large majority of the county does not agree with you...."? You're so full of yourself and so full of crap, what kind of chest waders are you wearing? If it was supported so as you stated, we wouldn't be here engaging in this discussion now would we? You have an agenda, and it is clear to all of us what that agenda is.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Newsreader, the difference is that I support the concept of privatization and commercial service because of facts, figures and truth.

And you oppose it even when facts, figures and truth are used to respond to you, JimmyOrr, Cleanupguy (and Jim Regan).

I successfully decimated above your collective (and disingenuous) arguments on the FAA study, the question on Dobbins, the question on taxpayer liability, and the rest. Yet it didn't matter because you don't care about answers, you just make up questions to pretend they matter. They don't to you.

It's time to create jobs and economic development again. It's time to raise property values again, and shrink the size of government. It's time to get Gwinnett moving again.

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NewsReader 2 years, 2 months ago

First off LIAR, you didn't do anything of the sort. The only argument I have provided here is that I don't like it, I don't want it, and I don't need it. Are you that learning impaired, or are you just a genuine jackass intent on acting the part? Why don't you demonstrate to everyone else in here where I did all this BS you claim? Because you are a liar and you can't. Why don't you be honest for once and tell everyone here what your real agenda is? What's in this for you? Spare me and the rest of us your rhetoric. As for me, I won’t dignify anything else you have to say with any further response. You’re nothing more than a loud mouth windbag engaging in personal attacks with all of those who happen to disagree with you.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Thank you, NewsReader, for letting us see exactly what i said you were.

Your words and your argument are exactly what I said they would be.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Exactly Newsreader. You have done an wonderful job of illustrating exactly my point. Facts don't matter to you, just your incorrect preconceived notion.

Thank you.

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

Sounds like a Fly Gwinnett Forward exchange - facts and concerns be dammed. The simple truth being the propeller plan has NEVER been done ANYWHERE before. So now we may, to our dismay, finally get the answer to the question of; What sound is made by fertilizer hitting the spinning Propeller?

Such a grand venture was tried before and proved the world wasn't flat BUT it didn't provide the claimed economic promise of a shorter trade route to India either.

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JimmyOrr 2 years, 2 months ago

Falco NO, I do not support the privatization of Gwinnett County Airport Briscoe Field for commercial airline traffic. My last post was among the many reasons why I do not support expansion for commercial airline service. You, sir, are the one who is not credible. Why? You hide behind the anonymous name of Falco lacking the backbone to put your given name in print; therefore, you must be a p----. James H. (Jimmy) Orr, Jr.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Jimmy Orr, I realize that having to debate facts and figures is hard for you. You basically are saying, instead, that you want to attack a person rather than debate the facts that I have given you here.

That's because you are losing the debate on facts. So you want to attack me like a member of a hyena pack. Thanks, but I like forcing you to debate facts.

That said, Jimmy Orr, here's another fact. You said above (quote) "From where I stand, I will put my trust in the FAA."

Well, Gwinnett had to apply for, and convince, the FAA that Gwinnett could be successful in airport privatization. By accepting Gwinnett County's application to privatize Briscoe airfield, the FAA concludes Gwinnett would make a very suitable place for privatization of an airport.

Still trust the FAA? Or now that another fact is put in your way, will you dodge it, too?

I'm betting you respond with more excuses. I say It's time for economic development to get things moving in Gwinnett.

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jack 2 years, 2 months ago

I've noticed if you are opposed to commercial flights out of Briscoe you are "trying to prevent rational inquiry and discussion in the possibility of limited scheduled service" and if you agree "you remain credible". Easy to spot the demagogues.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

jack has possibly the absolute best and most concise point on this entire thread.

They are demagogues, jack. Their rhetoric changes when facts are presented.

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jack 2 years, 2 months ago

They certainly don't possess your level of reading comprehension.

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

A trait often found in the pro propeller position for some reason.

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

Supporters are apparently just trying to get paid or get hired off one of those SOUTH ATLANTA collected resumes - got to make a living somewhere...

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JimmyOrr 2 years, 2 months ago

Falco, you would not know how to debate the airport issue if you were standing/sitting on a stack of so called facts. This will be my last post as I have determined you do not have a grasp of the facts associated with either side of the airport issue. Remember, FLY HARTSFIELD-JACKSON! It is your best option when it comes to flying to any location stateside and abroad. James H. (Jimmy) Orr, Jr.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

Yeah. Drat those facts. I've got to stop using them one of these days and start whining like NewsReader. Thanks for the advice!

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

Yes Falco facts based in fantasy are hard to defend but Fly Gwinnett Forward hasn't been limited by "reality" to this point, so why stop now? Lets just move on to level 4.

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

Seems to me that a few of the vested interst crowd have their panites in a wad. Jumping up and down and insisting that ANY hard facts have been presented is a joke at best. Still no word on "never been a successful venture of this type elsewhere", the big money gap (the Propeller Fellers 100 million would only be a drop in the bucket for even a way scaled down plan), and where would the remaining funds come from. The realities are in that sealed box of stuff that we are not yet privy to, but my bet is that Falco & Company already know what's in it. Maybe we should warm up another grand jury - this time let's not put any Chamber of Commerce people on it like the stadium one had.

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Falco 2 years, 2 months ago

You seem like quite a whiner, Cleanupguy. You have no facts, no numbers, and once again, just the whining of a conspiracy theorist who is losing argument.

Cleanupguy: "I don't know what things cost, but they just havta havta cost more than what other people say! And, and, and, and I just know that Elvis is still alive! yeah! And there's no real proof men walked on the moon. Everyone knows those photos were doctored!"

And you still haven't explained that embarrassing little question I posed to you above. Here I have reposted for you to evade a third time.

"It's quite easy to explain why you are wrong about the FAA study. The FAA study was to answer one question: if there were suitable locations in metro atlanta for a 2nd LARGE airport with a 9,000 foot runway, and the answer was no. The LARGE airport would have cost 2 billion.

However, the Briscoe location would not be a large airport. That's why the much smaller cost was being discussed.

Apparently Cleanup guy, you didn't bother to learn much or listen much. Either that, or you didn't want to learn or listen and were instead being unreasonable."

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JohnGalt 2 years, 2 months ago

Falco isn’t really interested in what is best for Gwinnett County as he has demonstrated here at the Gwinnett Daily Post. In fact, the only subject he has ever commented on, as of today, is the airport. He either has a financial interest in this airport initiative that Propeller Investments has on the table or he is a paid political hack hired by them to stir the proverbial pot in a blatant attempt to silence the opposition. Just take a look at news articles “Airport process questioned by committee” and “Commissioners surprised by airport move, want work to continue”. Other than this, and these two articles, he has never exhibited any interest in commenting elsewhere. Wear them down until they get frustrated and go away! Is that how it works Falco? For all of your references to other people’s whining it appears it is you that is doing the most. My advice to the rest of you; don’t engage Falco anymore, for it is your attention he seeks the most. Assuredly then, he will be the one that gets frustrated and goes away.

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CD 2 years, 2 months ago

@Falco: please list the positions along with the applicable salaries this airport will create. Please give us a breakdown of the enhanced tax revenues to be expected.

Please list the appreciation in price that homeowners in the affected areas will accrue.

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Pablo 2 years, 2 months ago

I live less than 5 minutes from Briscoe Field in a Sub-Division off Sweet Gum Road Lawrenceville GA 30045 and we had our HOA recently one of the topics discussed was the Airport and 95% of the residents attend and ALL that attended supported the proposed airport, so to think that ALL of the residents who reside close to the airport opposes it isn't TRUE.Yes there are folks who don't like it and that is understandable but the commissioners need to take in to consideration the ENTIRE county as a whole and not just the folks who opposes. Fly Gwinnett Forward not HALL.

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CD 2 years, 2 months ago

Pablo, please tell us why you (and your neighbors) are for the airport, citing facts and figures to back up your claim. Expected jobs? Okay, please list the job title and pay range and number of expected positions. Tax revenue benefits? Okay, please list the expected benefits by type/category and the expected revenue stream. Home value appreciation? Okay, please list the appreciation value expected along with your sources. I'm waiting.

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

Nice try, Falco, but I never was much of one to argue with that straw man - he's way too flammable. You sound like a bad Sesame Street "big versus little" - quick - look over there lesson. CD also had some good questions - I'd like to add one - like how much will you be getting out of the deal, as it would appear that you are the player in the game. Tell us what's in the magic sealed box that only you seem so familiar with the contents of (hmmmmm - how is that, anyway???) - how much will we be on the hook for the necessary improvements to surrounding roads and such, and ditto how much of the land acquisition, environmental and legal costs will we be billed - yes, even for the scaled down version as noted (DUH - maybe you need to get YOUR perceptive skills checked out). Tick-tock.

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166LZU 2 years, 2 months ago

Falco, You want facts? Facts & numbers??!! OK, try these. The May 2011 AMACS II Study is based on the FAA FACT2 study prepared in May 2007 – before the recession. Per the FAA ATADS system, HJAIA total operations have declined every year since 2007, such that there were less operations in 2011 than 2004. So, Atlanta really needs a 2nd airport? A Propeller Briscoe Advantage “fact” – “Atlanta is the only major city in the United States that doesn't have a secondary commercial airport.” Really? Philadelphia, Boston, Detroit, Phoenix, & Minneapolis are all MSAs without a 2nd airport that has commercial service. Per FAA ATADS, a lot of the 2nd airports like Houston Hobby, Oakland, Dallas Love Field, John Wayne, Chicago Midway, & Washington Dulles all have downward trends in Air Carrier operations since 2007. A Propeller Hot Topic “fact” – “using Zillow Research … shows average home prices for home prices for residences next to airports… over a ten year period … (like) Briscoe Field … (is) minus 10%.” Really? According to Zillow for zip codes 30043, 45, and 46, the home values have come down by 23%, 25%, and 39% in the last 10 years. Another Propeller Hot Topic “fact” – “Domestic passenger flights in the US start winding down between 8 and 10pm… (at airports like)… Greenville, Norfolk, & Birmingham.” According to flightware.com, those 3 airports have between 11 – 13 flights between 10PM & 7AM (the time that FICON considers the most intrusive to sleep), including UPS and FedEx (with a 727-200 tri-jet). Another Propeller “fact”. In their Q&A, Propeller shows the FAA takeoff dBA for the 737-700 as 65.8 dBA. What they don’t tell you is per the same FAA AC 36-3H database the 737-700 has 136 data points and that 65.8 is the 3rd quietest data point for the 737-700 - and that the average takeoff is 71.6 dBA and that the loudest is 77.1 dBA. Oh, BTW, the approach dBA for the 737-700 ranges from 84.4 to 88.3 dBA. Anybody that takes the time to scan that FAA database will notice that regional jets & t-props are in the 80s for approach and that 1 & 2 engine GA props are in the 60s and 70s. One final fact. The 2009 Briscoe Field Airport Master Plan shows residential areas west of the airport in 2005 which are above 65 DNL. 65 DNL is the Part 150 noise threshold for incompatible residential land use. Adding 29,000+ commercial flights a year (80 flights a day) at LZU makes no sense. It’s nonsense – in every sense of the word.

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Mack711 2 years, 2 months ago

Hey FALCO Waiting on your reply. Guess we will be waiting a while.

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R 2 years, 2 months ago

Gainesville needs jobs! Fly HALL Forward!! for the win, as it were.

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Cleanupguy 2 years, 2 months ago

Mack711 - not surprising that he again fled in the ugly face of reality. Supposedly no one but the Propeller Fellers and the BOC and their immediate minions knew exactly what the proposal in the magical box actually consists of, yet certain participants herein implied having intimate knowledge of its specifics. The math there is quite interesting. I’ve seen the Propeller Fellers, after handing out skimpy portions of “everything is beautiful – something for everyone – trust us” rhetoric, dodging specifics at every turn, escorted away from an obviously overwhelmingly non-believing crowd at 12Stone Church by the Police, and this sounds like more of the same desperate PR effort. Saying repeatedly that their secret plan is beloved by the multitudes doesn’t make it so. The proposal needs to see the light of day – so where is it? Pretty simple, no rocket science necessary. Falco will slink away into the shadows, to point and run another day.

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CD 2 years, 2 months ago

Although it's painful to listen to Nash speak, I did listen to her state of the county speech. I was a bit amused at her comment that "one of the attractions of Gwinnett is its close proximity to HJA." I admit that I did appreciate that.

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