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Residents flood commission meeting to talk about airport

Photo by File Photo

Photo by File Photo

LAWRENCEVILLE -- With a citizens report due in two weeks, people flooded the Gwinnett Justice and Administration Center on Tuesday to talk to commissioners about the proposed commercial flights at Briscoe Field in Lawrenceville.

The majority of the crowd was against the idea, citing issues such as noise and property values. Many questioned the commissioners trustworthiness. One political candidate showed ties to proposer Propeller Investments and a bankrupt airline. A young boy made a plea to keep his asthma from getting worse. And one woman broke into tears when talking about the death of a niece in a mid-air collision and a woman who died in a crash near her Lawrenceville home.

"This is personal. It's not about economics, convenience or politics. It's about our lives being ruined," said area homeowner Rex Walker, who said his neighborhood association had a lawyer on retainer. "We will fight with every resource available to us."

Several business owners and residents said the promise of jobs and economic prosperity made the venture worth a look.

"If we're going to be able to recruit top-notch companies, we need to have a much better air facility," Dacula man Bill Blackwell said.

Peggy Rose of Dacula told the board, "I hear it's business versus community and citizens. This is a community of citizens. ... "We voted for you to represent us, not big business."

Debbie Dooley, a Dacula resident who is a leader with the Atlanta Tea Party Patriots, said she had not made a decision on whether to support the project. But she said the most important move for commissioners is to allow the public to view the proposal, which is not subject to open records laws.

The county's purchasing ordinance has not allowed Propeller officials to discuss their proposal, although information released in the past called for a 10-gate facility.

"In order for me to make an informed decision I'd like to see the proposal," Dooley said. "Let's have a vote on it."

A citizens task force studying issues at the airport, including the privatization proposal, is in the final stages of its evaluation. A report is due May 8.

Comments

grandma 1 year, 11 months ago

There are so many people living in this community with asthma, allergies, COPD and other respiratory diseases due to the pollution and poor air quality. Bringing commercial flights would be like signing a death warrant for some of these folks.

WE DO NOT NEED MORE POLLUTION!!! ESPECIALLY HERE IN GWINNETT COUNTY!!!

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teelee 1 year, 11 months ago

Wow really? Why aren't people dying near Hartsfield-Jackson?

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bettergwinnett 1 year, 11 months ago

Because they moved to Gwinnett to get away from Hartsfield 30 years ago.

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Reason 1 year, 11 months ago

Because they were shafted by the political leaders in atlanta that directly profited, by partnerning with consessions firms for a cut. Their land was worthless, so they (homeowners) moved away, and parking lots, raw materials/recyclers equipment suppliers bought the land cheap and made money on the expansion years later. The same set-up around Briscoe now. Aside from those types of land, the county government owns massive properties that headquarters several department operations. It would be no problem to move them away and expand the airport very quickly. The BOC has the power to do it. All it takes is a majority vote. Right? BTW, Briscoe is 1.6 miles from the square in Lawrenceville. Those new lofts, courthouse brown bag concerts, the theatre and roof top bar will be prime spots to enjoy takeoffs. Not to mention a sweet wiff of jet exaust to coat your car paint, and outdoor dining shoud you frequent the area.

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

Bet you also believe that cigarettes don't cause cancer...

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michelle1124 1 year, 11 months ago

Id you're so worried about air pollution and respiratory disease causing events, start pushing to eliminate open air burning of leaves and other backyard trash. The reason the air isn't clear is not because of airplanes that are not flying through our skies, it's because too much other danged stuff is pushed into the skies. Don't like bronchitis or asthma? get rid of tobacco products. It's not "big business" that's the problem it everyone else not using good jugement and common sense.

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

For reference, per passenger a typical economy-class New York to Los Angeles round trip produces about 1574 lb of CO2.

Just how much (how many lifetimes) do you think a couple of hundred pound person could possibly smoke to create eight times their body weight? That would also take several hundred tons of burning leaves. The plane figure is multiple times per day per passenger. Of course, a plethora of other chemicals and particulates are also emitted by aircraft that do not come out of either cigarettes or leaves – you might want to check that out for yourself.

Oh - we already have periods when you cannot burn leaves, and no-smoking bans are spreading rapidly all over the country.

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michelle1124 1 year, 11 months ago

Dear grandma, commercial flights aren't a death warrant, but the open air burning or trash certainly could be. Why not fight against a known pollutant and carcinogen producing act that goes uncontrolled? Would you stick your head in a chimney and breathe? If not, why not fight to control things that SHOULD be controlled instead of ignoring them?

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R 1 year, 11 months ago

Its already banned half the year and on EVERY sunday ... This Red Herring has been caught and addressed please get back on topic.

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

I guess that the Tea Party (Debbie Dooley) hasn't received their marching orders from Dick Armey on this yet, but given that taxpayers would unquestionably be on the hook for this (per the FAA and histories of all similar projects) when it fails (as it has everywhere else that it has been tried), I would think that common sense would prevail. The fact that everyone else but the shady Propeller Fellers have backed away from this (read as - only one bidder, nothing to hide from any others), and that both they and the BOC have been so secretive is a big huge galaxy sized red flag. Oh, sorry - this is about politics and money, my bad going with rational.

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teelee 1 year, 11 months ago

Everywhere else isn't 40 miles from the worlds busiest airport. Take it one step at a time and let private investors pay for it.

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DaculaResident 1 year, 11 months ago

Until they fail and the Gwinnett County tax payers have to pay for it. They have no proven track record except for failure.

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R 1 year, 11 months ago

Yeah taxpayers the NEW private investors, Sorry we are already carrying a ballpark.

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WantingFacts 1 year, 11 months ago

Why is the Tea Party for this? I thought they were supposed to be looking out for taxpayers? Does the Tea Party think it is a good idea for the taxpayers to be forced to operate a failed venture when Propeller goes bankrupt? The Propeller people have no experience operating an airport, but they do have experience going bankrupt.

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

The Tea Party Patriots (TPP) is actually a well veiled “Astroturf” lobby, meaning that it is meant to appear local and “grass roots” but the roots are really elsewhere. At their core they are a big money political machine. The prototype for this was Freedom Works (a national partner of the TPP), founded by Dick Armey, which organized locals for demonstrations and such for the likes of AT&T and Verizon – all basically highly paid-for lobbying efforts, of course. Please do not be fooled - their primary focus is the corporate jet crowd that pulls their strings from behind the curtain, not Gwinnett citizens. Hopefully this answers the question regarding who they’re looking after.

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R 1 year, 11 months ago

They haven't stated they ARE

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

Absolutely correct, but their hesitation to spot and call the huge known dangers to taxpayers speaks volumes about their real interests. I have personally witnessed the TPP at the gold dome, "persuading" legislators to see things their way. Curiously, they do not have to wear the identifying lobbyist credentials - they're a 501c(4), defined as a "social welfare organization" - they can lobby freely, cash can flow with zero visibility.

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ptm4936 1 year, 11 months ago

I am confused. The TEA party wants a vote on the airport but doesn't want people to vote on the TSPLOST?

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teelee 1 year, 11 months ago

The people of Gwinnett should vote. This issue should not be decided by hysterical Lawrenceville residents.

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

How long have you been emloyed by the Propeller Fellers?

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R 1 year, 11 months ago

That city is WITHIN Gwinnett... Do you require a map?

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DaculaResident 1 year, 11 months ago

I am not detecting any hysteria except from your accusaitons of hysteria.

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DaculaResident 1 year, 11 months ago

If yo were at the meeting last night, no one was "Hysterical". Perhaps there was one person out of 38 who presented that you could have said was outwardly emotional but everyone else, whlie emotional because this is a personal issue to us, kept their emotions in check. By the way, where do you live?

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JohnGalt 1 year, 11 months ago

I find it interesting that teelee just starting posting three weeks ago. Who stopped posting three weeks ago that perhaps has an interest in this airport? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

Someone identified as Falco used to spew the same garbage - Teelee appeared immediately after that one disappeared. What a coinky-dental!

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bettergwinnett 1 year, 11 months ago

So three main principals in Propeller bankrupted Eos Airline in 2008 and now they want to Gwinnett to let them convert Briscoe to a commercial airport?

Should the county really risk the financial well being of county government and all taxpayers by even considering Propeller as a viable bidder?

Shouldn't a minimum qualification be that you haven't bankrupted your previous company?

How does failure running an airline qualify you to develop and run an airport?

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Dubbin 1 year, 11 months ago

Who was the commissioner with ties to Propeller?

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Dubbin 1 year, 11 months ago

"If we're going to be able to recruit top-notch companies, we need to have a much better air facility," Isn't it funny how Alpharetta and all the other luxury communities in the north Atlanta area recruit all the best companies without an airport? Want to know why they get the best companies? Because companies realize that their employees want to live in a safe, clean area with good schools. Ever seen an airport that meets those criteria?

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teelee 1 year, 11 months ago

There are plenty of regional airports in nice communities.

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Dubbin 1 year, 11 months ago

There are even more nice communities without regional airports. Are you on Propeller's payroll or are you going to get a contract with them after they take over Briscoe?

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

Name one successful one in the shadow of a major hub airport. Hint - there aren't any.

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teelee 1 year, 11 months ago

The headline should read "Hysterical Lawrenceville residents flood commission meeting to talk about airport". Let me remind everybody we are still NUMBER ONE in home foreclosures in the entire state of Georgia and in personal bankruptcies. The construction we lived off of is not coming back. It is time to take the next step in the evolution of Gwinnett County and expand Briscoe Field and start bringing in commercial flights. We have the professional sports teams, concert venues, malls and a population of almost a million people that will support it. They need to use private funds and start small and let it grow. I think an international terminal with US Customs Service would be a huge plus. The Gwinnett County Commissioners have a unique opportunity to make history and bring hope and prosperity back to the Gwinnett County families that have been suffering through these horrible economic times.

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

We're "number one" because we grossly overbuilt in the long past boom period and you want to repeat that with another stadium boondoggle? Check out the FAA study - at the projected double the cost ticket prices from Hartsfield, they would not be flocking to Briscoe. Of course, only "puddle jumpers" could even get off the ground in the first place.

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bettergwinnett 1 year, 11 months ago

Actually it should read -

3 Consultants Advise Against Conversion of Brisoce to Commercial Airport , or

Airline Industry Consolidating, Regional Airports Losing Carriers to Nearby Hubs , maybe even

Rissk Too Great Leave Brisoce as General Aviation Airport

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R 1 year, 11 months ago

YES By all means lets HASTEN the cycle and EXPAND our lead... Number ONE in the nation AGAIN!

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DaculaResident 1 year, 11 months ago

This is the third time in this comment string where the Lawrenceville Residents are being referred to as "hysterical". Please show me one "hysterical" post from a Lawrenceville resident.

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DaculaResident 1 year, 11 months ago

Where to you plan that international terminial and the longer runway to accommodate those international jets? The words "Eminent domain" come to mind. Again, where do you live?

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

Teelee is again clueless. We elect leaders and empower them to make appropriate decisions on our behalf. When the county needs to buy a box of staples they are able to do so without a vote (a republic, not a democracy). Unfortunately, decreasing numbers vote (10% turnout for Bannister, 5% for Nash, etc.), and they and individuals such as Teelee that avoid facts like the plague (an agenda perhaps) make this a much more difficult process than it should be. One more try – this has never been successful anywhere before, taxpayers have already been guaranteed (by the FAA and the very scale of the project) to be held liable for the inevitable, zero carriers are interested in it, the 737’s promised cannot land or take off with the weight of fuel and passengers, and only one shady private company of ill repute is interested, having submitted a secret proposal to the county. Talk about buying a pig in a poke – even without seeing the proposal some are anxious to say yes. Forgive me, but that’s just plane (sic) stupid.

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

A few more whatcha call facts for Teelee aka Propeller Feller:

The last I heard, Gwinnett was almost a quarter million short of a million, but nice exaggeration there.

The only protester specifically noted in the piece was from Dacula, not Lawrenceville as you suggested.

Briscoe came in as a distant second choice in the FAA study – curious that Gwinnett is still the preferred target for it.

Basically the majority of Gwinnett would be on the potential flight paths of aircraft via Briscoe, not just the immediate Lawrenceville area. Them there imaginary big jets (that Briscoe can’t actually accommodate) fly right fast, and this would affect us all directly.

The FAA has noted that Hartsfield would have to reconfigure the use of its airspace if this actually were to happen at Briscoe, which would incur additional costs and safety hazards for their existing traffic.

I could find no mention of international flights in any proposal as you suggested was on the table. Perhaps you have seen the secret proposal “somehow” (wink-wink). In any case, given the size limitations of aircraft at Briscoe, such commercial flights would be impractical / impossible.

With your complete disregard for the truth and your laser focus on fairy tales, I think you should run for the Board of Commissioners!

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pcjohn 1 year, 11 months ago

Cleanupguy - thanks for a cogent argument. I hope that our Commission will, for once, be obedient to those who elected them. But I fear that they will be like that scoundrel Bert Nasuti who jammed that stupid ball field down our throats. I'm pessimistic for the homeowners near Briscoe Field....but there still is a little hope that the Commission will serve the people they represent. Representation of the People is a founding principle of our Democracy yet it never caught hold here in Gwinnett County.

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BufordGuy 1 year, 11 months ago

John, Actually we have no Democracy but a Republic (you know, rule of law) but your point is well taken. As for Nasuti he is definitely to blame, but it takes 3 votes to do anything. The last one of that bunch is still sitting over there and hopefully the district 3 voters will not get snookered as those of us in Buford did for 16 years.

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pcjohn 1 year, 11 months ago

Thanks BufordGuy. I could have used "Republic" but thought it might confuse most folks. Everyone seems to understand the looser term "Democracy". I fear that whoever takes District 3 is immaterial because of the governing principle of "district courtesy" wherein all these bums support one another on all votes. Only a true maverick can upset the apple cart in Gwinnett and he/she will never gain the financial support of the developers that is crucial to winning a seat on the Commission. We are doomed.

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kevin 1 year, 11 months ago

Since the Gwinnett BOC can't seem to understand that the taxpayers don't want this expansion, let them place the issue on the ballot. That seems to be the only way we get true representation. Politicians just represent their special interests. Can't people understand this yet? Don't re-elect.

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bettergwinnett 1 year, 11 months ago

Send a message, sign the petition a the link below, to send your message to the commissioners.

http://www.change.org/petitions/gwinnett-board-of-commissioners-stop-briscoe-field-expansion

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MissDaisyCook 1 year, 11 months ago

I want to sign the petition in support of limited commercial service at Briscoe.

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bettergwinnett 1 year, 11 months ago

There is no such thing as "limited commercial service" once passenger jets begin operating at Briscoe the FAA has TOTAL control. This FACT was confirmed to the citizens committee by the Atlanta Regional Manager for the FAA. In 1990 Congress even passed a law removing local jurisdiction's authority to challenge the FAA's authority. There is no limit on the number of flight, hours of operation, size of aircraft, or airlines. Any airline that wants to operate can, even if it's UPS or Fed Ex flying cargo at 3:00 AM.

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

Amen, and people need to quit citing Orange County/John Wayne Airport's noise abatement. They have a grandfathered agreement. As it is, it took the citizens years of lawsuits to get that agreement. The lawsuits and citizens' groups started in the late 60s and the court-ordered noise abatement agreement came about in 1985. Again, we can't get any noise abatement due to the 1990 federal law. Orange County is the exception with their grandfathered agreement. We will have zero, zip, nada noise abatement.

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mikekorom 1 year, 11 months ago

Interesting how the Post mentions eveyone's name but mine, Mike Korom. I'm the "one political candidate showed ties to proposer Propeller Investments and a bankrupt airline."
The bankrupt airline was Eos Airlines and three of the officers are also partners in Propeller Investments. This info was easy to find on LinkedIn and WARN Lawyers and CNN.com

For the record I'm running for the District 3 seat currently held by Mike Beaudreau. He is a proponent of the expansion/commercialization. I encourage everyone to go to the Gwinnett County Government Website and watch the video of last night's meeting. It may not be up yet but usually is within a day or so.

I'm a TRUE conservative Republican.
Please check it out.

Respectfully, Mike Korom mikekorom@bellsouth.net

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

As opposed to a FALSE one? Sorry, I'm automatically repulsed by simplistic labels, especially by a politician.

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R 1 year, 11 months ago

The fact that this charade has gone as far as it has indicates that district 3 NEEDS the new guy in the next election.

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

Thanks for letting us know about the Propeller execs' previous stints as execs of an airline that went bankrupt. It was the most interesting thing I learned at that BOC meeting. And thanks for running against that weasel, Mike Beaudreau. He's my commissioner, and he's terrible. His body language during the public comments at the BOC meetings is so insulting. He's awful!

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BufordToo 1 year, 11 months ago

Wow! This is great stuff ya'll are writing. But let me remind you the airport was built waaaaaay before all those subdivisions were assembled in and around Dacula. If you homeowners had read the fine print in your contracts, you would have seen the developer's disclaimer statement that read: "Be advised that the home you are buying lies in the flight path of an airport." But I guess the mortgage rates were too good at the time for any one to notice, the developers were all too greedy, the County needed the tax revenue, and the BOC were hell bent on approving every subdivision brought to their attention. Hey, please don't get me wrong, I want you guys to continue acting crazy over there . . . it makes for great reading and maybe over time we'll have less people living here which means less traffic on the highways.

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bettergwinnett 1 year, 11 months ago

You make a great point, if Gwinnett government had been responsible 40 years ago they would have zoned all the land around the airport for uses other than residential and other non-compatible uses. That's what Greenville SC did. But no you are correct the county wanted tax revenue so bad they didn't just allow homes to be built in the flight path, it was encouraged by lax zoning. So now you think the homeowners are unreasonable to want to protect their quality of life and home values?

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

Buford Too - Would you rather be in the flight path of a single engine putt-putt or a 737 (with low fuel and few passengers, of course, since that's all Briscoe can handle without a major expansion - oooooops!)? With the latter, Gwinnett and all surrounding counties will be in the flight path (you might want to check out a map of Buford with respect to major destinations and Briscoe), and nobody signed up for that (a commercial airport) when they bought here. Even Wayne Hill agreed with no commercial service - wow! By your theory, a nuclear holocaust would be a good thing for traffic. Oh, and in your scenario y'all would have to cover the tax base lost from the exodus. Nice critical thinking there.

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

I moved to Lawrenceville in 1997 after being assured by public officials that commercializing Briscoe was a settled issue.

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BufordToo 1 year, 11 months ago

Here's a reality check . . . we also didn't sign up for the Mall of Georgia, half-empty school buses cluttering our road system, schools on every corner, vacant retail centers too numerous to count, increased levels of crime, an overzealous police force, PVC subdivisions, and a bloated County workforce all in the name of progress! Give me a break, Gwinnett County lost its identity years ago when it sold its soul to developers. If you want to continue thinking that Gwinnett County is "a great place to raise a family," I'm sorry to say that horse left the barn years ago. Without a re-development initiative utilizing the airport as one part in an overall master plan, the county's fate is doomed. What's going on South of Pleasant Hill will just continue moving up to Lawrenceville and points north. If someone was smart, they'd connect the dots to creating a great city within a city by utilizing the airport, University Parkway, a highspeed rail network (think CSX tracks), a revitalized economic zone from highway 20 to Cedars and 316 to Old 29. But that's thinking too much outside the box.

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

OK, so the sky is falling, we're all doomed, no hope left, etc. So reality check wise (you're literally talking low billions of dollars there), what is your solution - I'm guessing time travel? You're wrong on several counts, but the biggest problem Gwinnett has had over the years is apathy. Only 60% of eligible voters are registered, and the last time around a whopping 5% turned out to vote for our current supreme leader. Pretty easy pushing computer keys, actually being informed and getting involved is something entirely different.

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mikekorom 1 year, 11 months ago

For the record I’m the political candidate mentioned in this article. Mike Korom.

I encourage everyone to go to the Gwinnett County government website and watch the video. There were hundreds in attendance and a vast majority are opposed to the expansion/commercialization of Briscoe Field.

Enlightening!

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BufordToo 1 year, 11 months ago

Having been here since 1974, the three biggest problems observed are 1) the lack of a 25 year master economic plan, 2) intellectually ill-equipped politicians running for office, and 3) short-sighted visions of the county. If the County leadership had been bold in years past, we would have a comprehensive rail system in place (Buford and Lawrenceville have the tracks) instead of a bunch of stinky buses running down the highway that are half empty. If the County commissioners spend more time asking a home owner to use stucco versus brick, how can anyone expect them (the BOC) to get their arms (brains) wrapped around the economic impact of a wholesale redevelopment program of the County?

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Sorry_it_came_to_this 1 year, 11 months ago

BufordToo must not have lived here in 1994 when the airport commercialization was overwhelmingly defeated. The people who moved to the area since then had every expectation that this issue would not be revived. The area was highly populated in 1994, and much more now. BufordToo is way out of line to blame homeowners for moving near the airport. I wonder how BufordToo would feel if the rail line he wanted went right through his backyard? Do unto others...

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R 1 year, 11 months ago

Buford two may have some land yet to be redeveloped and needs "improvements" to do it...

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166LZU 1 year, 11 months ago

Buford II - How about another reality check? The pro-expansionists like to talk about John Wayne (SNA), Westchester County NY (HPN), & Greenville-Spartanburg (GSP) airports as examples of commercial airports that make everybody euphoric to live next to them. Here’s the catch – none of those airports transitioned to scheduled passenger service 50 years after the airport began.

SNA became public owned airport in 1939. It was a military base during WWII. By 1952 Bonanza Airlines was providing scheduled service from Orange County airport with DC-3s. Do the math – that’s 13 years after SNA opended, not 50. HPN became a public airport in 1944 when the US Army appropriated it to Westchester County. It opened in 1945 and 3 years later the first commercial American Airlines flight took off. GSP opened on October 15 1962, with immediate commercial service provided by Eastern, and then Piedmont, etc., etc.

I have lived 1.66 miles from the LZU “25” runway marker for the last 20 years. Over those years, I’ve enjoyed the occasional air show, hot air balloon festival, historic aircraft, or blimp that’s used LZU. I don’t have a plane or own a business. I do have a home though. When I fly - I happily go to HJAIA.

If you can show me another GA airport that changed to commercial service after 50 years - and was successful, I’d be amazed. There was no error in judgement for those of us who moved here. Rather, it's the BoC's error for even considering a change to commercial service.

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BufordToo 1 year, 11 months ago

Point of reference, I've been here way longer than most and raised the issue years ago (before Wayne Hill took office) of the need for a comprehensive economic development plan. It's never been drafted. Instead, we have a patchwork of ill-fated, short-sighted initiatives that only add to the County's woes. Let me see, let's count all of the County-owned cars sitting in the driveways of County workers each night.Last time I checked, you and I are paying for all that gas. Not to mention all the County POLICE cars driving up I-85 to Jackson County on your dime and mine. Let's talk about the unfunded County pension fund, let's talk about a lack of a cohesive mass transit system joining downtown Atlanta that's not dependent upon Interstate 85, let's talk about the unintended negative consequences of sending noise complaint letters to company CEO's landing late at night who may have thought of relocating to the County, let's talk about the continued decline in the hospital's service lines, let's talk about "neighbors" taking it upon themselves to dispose of their grass clippings and other trash items on private property (spelled pasture land), etc. Whether the airport is commercialized or not, the issue is the continuation of everyone out for his or herself. I'm sure if it wasn't the airport, there'd be some other issue that you guys would go ballistic on. What about telling CSX that their trains are no longer allowed to roll through the County? Think about it.

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166LZU 1 year, 11 months ago

B2 - Start a thread on some of those other topics you identified - you'll probably get some good discussion. But the last time I checked the topic for this thread was "airport". I've been in the County for 30+ years as well. Taking a shot at those of us who expose expansion as being naive, "crazy", or "ballistic" is way off base. I've probably been to 10 BoC and/or CRC meetings since September 2011 and haven't seen anybody who was. And I was there in 1994.

How many have BoC/CRC meetings have you been to? Or do you just stick with cyberspace forums?

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

People often cite Orange County/John Wayne Airport (SNA) as a shining example of noise abatement, but remember that a federal law passed in 1990 (ANCA) took control of noise abatement away from local airport operators and gave it to the Feds. The Orange County/John Wayne Airport 1985 court-ordered noise abatement settlement was GRANDFATHERED. They have noise abatement, but we will have NO noise abatement! The FAA is about promoting aviation, not protecting ordinary citizens from noise.

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BufordToo 1 year, 11 months ago

It's obvious that you're disseminating pieces of information and not painting the entire picture. There are both mandatory and voluntary noise abatement procedures in effect throughout the land. Most voluntary programs also come with a fine, i.e., Morristown, NJ has the ability to fine a plane up to $350.00 an incident. Sarasota can top $5,000. There are nighttime noise restrictions implemented at SRQ. Repeat offenders failing to comply with these restrictions can be fined by the Sarasota Manatee Airport Authority.

Aircraft identified by FAR Part 36 as Stage 2 aircraft are prohibited from departing after 10:00 p.m. and before 7:00 a.m. Stage 2 Aircraft are not prohibited from departing after 10 p.m. if they have been legitimately delayed by mechanical, weather, or air traffic control problems. A $5000 fine has been authorized for violations of this resolution. • Prohibition of non-emergency run-ups between 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. • Required use of noise-free Ground Power Units between 10:00 p.m. and 7:00 a.m. • No training operations between midnight and 6:00 a.m.

So before you go off a cliff and tell us what the FAA can and can not do, please so your homework. Municipal airports have the ability to issue fines! And, yes, I'm a pilot.

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R 1 year, 11 months ago

Excuse me, but WHO gets the fine dollars? The Beleaguered home and business owners or the GOVERNMENT? You know the county government that PROMPTLY rolls up the sidewalks at 10 PM at the latest

And on the locations you claim collect fines, how much have they collected? Is your argument that Gwinnett will make a mint on FINES on each violation AFTER the fact?

Are we to ABUSE residents for dollars now? that sure is change we can believe in...

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que_desastre 1 year, 11 months ago

Question. Has anyone followed the money yet on this one? Normally when such a huge amount of citizens directly impacted by a proposal vehemently reject it, the planners will listen to their constituents and move on. Often there is a reason that the planners (BOC) ignore the voice of the people. I've been reviewing our Gwinnett BOC campaign contributors lately and it is ludicrous how many of the companies on their public sheets (just for example here is one of them, you just have to type in the BOC name to see the others- copy and paste) that do business with Gwinnett County in some fashion. I'm not sure if there is any ethics issues with that, I suppose it's legal for anyone to donate to anyone running for office. I see ones that worked on the Gwinnett Braves Stadium. ex. a) 3 of the same last name Johnson all working for the same company ($5k) ex. B) for instance, that is doing a half ass job finishing the SR 20/LOGANVILLE HIGHWAY FROM OZORA ROAD TO BRAND ROAD project. Gary's Grading and Pipeline Co. is the contractor. A nice $1000 contribution to our BOC just last month. Hopefully the Commiss. gave a little nudge to contractor and reminded them they are way over due on the project. Also, just showing up to work would be a good start. Anyways. Citizens need to do due diligence on all elected officials. Google is a great tool we have at our disposal. Research companies that want the contract. Look at the Officers at the company. See if any of them match the Officials Contributors list. It's all public information. It takes some time but it kind of provides some clarity on the persistence of these elected officials to ignore their constituents requests.

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gwinnettisgreat1 1 year, 11 months ago

Seriously? Air Pollution? Al Gore is that you???

Get real people. If you want to do something about asthma and COPD start by trying to get rid of all the lazy tards in front of the to Wal-Mart. I think I might have lost 5 years of my life just walking through those entry ways alone.

Everyone gets all ripped up about air planes. It's an airport. You should not have moved so freaking close to begin with if you don't like noise. Duh. You are probably the same people that whine about big trucks and loud motor cycles.

I say privatize the sucker.

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

Any possible errors about SNA are unintentional. My source was their official web site: www.ocair.com. The info is under Frequently Asked Questions - Noise. The other source was the FAA response to the citizens' committee questions. Scott Serritt of the FAA said we will have no control over the size of the planes (determined only by runway size), number of flights, or time of flights. If voluntary and mandatory restrictions are allowed by the FAA (even after the 1990 ANCA law was passed), who determines these restrictions? Do the citizens have a voice? You mention Sarasota, but what about Briscoe? My home is five miles (as the crow flies) from Briscoe, and I still hear planes flying over in the middle of the night. A friend who lives closer hears more of that than I do. What restrictions does Brisoce have, if any? Are these planes fined for flying out at 2, 3, or 4 in the morning?Who will we rely on for these restrictions--will it be Propeller Investments?

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

When I moved to Gwinnett in 1986, metro Atlanta had 15 days per year when the air pollution exceeded federal limits, as opposed to Los Angeles, which had 150 days. Now, every time the temperature goes above a certain point (which is most of the summer), we have smog alerts. Asthma and COPD are serious illnesses, and not everyone afflicted smoked to acquire these illnesses. As for living near an airport, I'm five miles out, not as close as some, but I would have moved elsewhere but for the assurances made back in the 1990s that Briscoe would never be commercialized.

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snellvillemike 1 year, 11 months ago

que_desastre You are right on. I smell a rat and follow the money trail. It is corruption at the core. It would be a great story for the newspaper to research and expose. Why does the newspaper not follow up on this lead?

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DaculaResident 1 year, 11 months ago

The Gwinnett Chamber of Commerce is pushing hard to allow the privitization to happen. Just look at the Executive Committe and Board of the Gwinnett Chamber of Commerce and you will see why the oppostion is not getting a lot of news time.

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que_desastre 1 year, 11 months ago

Georgia was voted the most corrupt state in the Union I believe. Not enough investigative journalist to go around I suppose.

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

The publisher of the Gwinnett Daily Post, J. K. Murphy, is pro-privatization. In fairness, he has published numerous anti-privatization letters, including several of mine. The AJC uncovered some of the previous corruption in Gwinnett County, so maybe they'll investigate. Unfortunately, it may be too late as far as the airport goes.

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JohnGalt 1 year, 11 months ago

BufordToo is a full of crap. BufordToo only began posting comments here within the last 48 hours. I find that completely out of character for someone that has supposedly lived here since 1974, claiming to have been a part of the process all these years, and all of a sudden has become vocal about this airport. The moron probably doesn’ t even know who Lillian Webb is either, and the only reason he knows who Wayne Hill is because of the facility that bears the man’s name along with all of the material product he gets from that facility to post here. BufordToo is probably aka teelee aka Falco aka troll who obviously has an interest in getting this airport approved. BufordToo, or whatever your name is, you’re a one trick pony.

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Cleanupguy 1 year, 11 months ago

Well said. Either the attention spans of these folks is less than that of a gnat or they are truly clueless. This is about Briscoe. Plan has never worked elsewhere. No air carriers interested. Private backer's only previous experience ended in going bankrupt. Taxpayers will be on the hook for another unsuccessful venture. Urban renewal, air pollution and the color of your shoes not the real issues here. Best option (Cobb) for this proposal was ignored for distant second choice Gwinnett. This would be very expensive and very bad. Simple.

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BufordToo 1 year, 11 months ago

Gosh John, you sound a bit upset that someone is discussing the idea of commercial aviation at Briscoe with complete logic. Let's see, general aviation traffic in general is on the decline, especially at Briscoe which translates into less revenue for the County. This fact, coupled with the fact that over the next several years the existing general aviation fleet (located in those T-hangars) is also getting older which translates into less ad valorum taxes for the County. Now, take those two facts and mix them with the crazy people sending the noise complaint letters, and the next thing you know, the corporate traffic disappears meaning less landing fees for the County and god forbid, fewer companies wanting to relocate to the County. This is not an issue about "in the past . . ." This is about the future of the County's tax base and the changing landscape of urban development. If you're so interested in "quality of life issues," let me suggest you ask the County to clean up the traffic mess around Hebron Baptist Church or the blighted area south of Pleasant Hill (which just keeps moving north.

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gwinnettisgreat1 1 year, 11 months ago

Nobody likes change. Everyone wants life to stay status quo. Well, unless you live in Mayberry that is not happening. Put your for sale sign in the front yard now people, things are changing. So round up maw and paw its time to head for the hills.

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kevin 1 year, 11 months ago

I would dare the BOC to read these blogs here. Haven't they realized the people do not want this expansion? This has got to be money under the table somewhere since this is still going on. The BOC can't be this ignorant of the people.

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Katrina 1 year, 11 months ago

Many people embrace change, but not when it destroys quality of life.

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