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Proposals sought for Gwinnett's Briscoe Field

LAWRENCEVILLE — After a number of hang-ups, county officials called Thursday for proposals to privatize Briscoe Field.

The Gwinnett County Airport has been the center of debate for more than a year because of at least one company’s desire to add passenger service at the Lawrenceville field.

But based on a consultant’s recommendation, Thursday’s request for proposals calls for plans to take over the airport in its current general aviation state, but allowing for a long-term vision that would allow commercial flights.

The 75-page document is available at gwinnettcounty.com.

A pre-bid conference for companies to ask questions is set for Jan. 5, and bids are due Feb. 8.

The news was a blow to local residents concerned about the noise and traffic that could come with an airport expansion and a blessing to those hoping passenger service could bring economic success.

“We’re just disappointed that the county went forward with the (request for proposals),” said Rick Schneider of Citizens for Better Gwinnett.

Schneider said his group was hoping officials would wait until a citizens committee currently discussing the future of Briscoe Field to make its recommendation.

“I don’t understand what’s the rush on this project. What’s the hurry?” he said. “It just doesn’t make sense.”

Last year, three companies submitted qualifications for the proposed private partnership, one of which openly discussed commercialization. Commissioners voted to begin the process anew a few months ago, allowing any interested company to submit proposals.

Paula Hastings, a Lawrenceville woman who favors studying the commercial option, said it was about time the request for proposals was issued.

“Fly Gwinnett Forward is committed to exploring the facts as it relates to privatization, scheduled service, and it’s potential,” Hastings said, submitting a statement for the pro-commercialization group. “From these facts, we believe that all citizens in Gwinnett can benefit from this opportunity and we are excited and encouraged that the RFP has been released so we may all learn more regarding those facts. We applaud the commissioners who saw the need to move forward.”

Attempts to reach Chairwoman Charlotte Nash about the formal request were not successful.

Comments

R 2 years, 9 months ago

Why didn't we wait until the citizen panel completed its task 60 days from now? It's been in the hopper for 4 months already.

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kevin 2 years, 9 months ago

BOC: WE HAVE DECIDED TO CUT YOUR QUALITY OF LIFE.

The majority of this BOC has decided to make less cuts and do whatever it takes to raise money to spend so they can buy votes.These few BOC would sell their mama if the price was right. Can't voters see the writing on the wall yet? Why didn't the GDP list the names of those that voted to move forward with this? Did the BOC beg Camie Young not to or did she not do a through reporting job? You decide.

If you do not elect a new board member in the next election, then you all deserve what you get. I guess the money was ripe for the taking. The heck with holding back employee raises, cutting positions, etc. They want INCOME. Watch if they don't tell you it is either this airport or a raise in your taxes. What a bunch of liberals. They have no more ideas about running this county in tuff times than the man in the moon. But yet they are looking to get more minorities with all the related issues to move into Gwinnett. Also watch for the under-the-table money flying around. If you read the article the day before, a few states with airport expansions warned Gwinnett is was a bad idea and they are hardly breaking even. Within hours, our BOC decides otherwise, like it wasn't planned all along. I guess they enjoyed the travel and meals in the meantime.

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jack 2 years, 9 months ago

In an unrelated move, the BOC has decided to replace the County's automobile fleet with Yugos.

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CD 2 years, 9 months ago

“I don’t understand what’s the rush on this project. What’s the hurry?” he said. “It just doesn’t make sense.”

Rick, the reason is the same reason as always: MONEY. Specifically, the money (kickbacks) the BOC believes they are personally entitled by arranging the sale of a taxpayer asset now and then later dumping that asset back onto the taxpayer when it does not work out. Developers are having a difficult time paying for their gold chains and leased Hummers. They need a cash infusion. Kenerly provides good evidence here.

Merry Christmas, Kenerly! How about that round of golf at the other county disaster, BJ? I'll even spring for lunch.

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dan 2 years, 9 months ago

The only people that are complaining about this is a small percentage of the county population that live close to the airport. Get over it people! This is not a city of Lawrenceville owned aiport, but a county owned one. Just because a few people are speaking up against the plans do not mean that the other 800,000 or so people in the county do not want this.

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

This statement flatly proves you off base - you have NO clue. Maybe the city should annex it - since I'm no where NEAR it!

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CD 2 years, 9 months ago

@Dan: the only people actively supporting this are the Chamber and those that stand to benefit from their personal connections in terms of dollars. I attended the meetings and did not see anyone other than the shills from Landmark supporting this fiasco.

A vote will not be held because there is no real support (support being defined as voters that would actually venture out and cast a ballot in favor) for this in terms of numbers. There is plenty of opposition, however. The opposition would turn out. There the problem sits for the BOC.

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dan 2 years, 9 months ago

I'm willing to bet that if this issue is put on the ballot for next year's primaries it would pass.

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jack 2 years, 9 months ago

Assuming the usual 9-10% voter turnout, I'd venture those closer to the airport would be more motivated to show up at the polls. The rest of the county, with the exception of the developers, would be apathetic as few would ever use the services of an expanded Briscoe. The issue would probably fail.

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

SORRY we already tried to do that- shot down faster than a balloon!

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

Lets PRIVATIZE our park system - the group operating Stone Mountain is located in Norcross so lets RAISE revenue NOW Drill Baby Drill!

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BOB_69 2 years, 9 months ago

You know what the problem is with all you back woods honky tonnks....you want everything without giving anything. You want your big gas guzzling truck but you dont want to drill oil in my back yard. Do you people even understand why Dubai is one of the richest countries in the world if not the richest? Do you undertsand why China is taking over the aviation industry along with everything else? Because these people are putting in the leg work and making the sacrifices to feed your obsession with the american dream, and are robbing you blind in the process. No one expects you people to understand the benefit an ATL releiver airport would bring to the economy, because your not willing to sacrifice a little for the greater good. Oh the noise and the pollution, give me a break. If you all did a little research you might realize the technological advancements in jet aircraft propulsion systems are making them quieter and more fuel efficient with each aircraft that rolls off the line. These aren't exactly the 70's era turbojets you used to fly ol'timers. An airport is a sea of jobs at all levels of experience and knowlegde. And you're right, it is about the money, because airports make money! The same money that fixes your roads, that builds your new schools, and provides your welfare check. You people need to learn to take a little responsibility for the things you enjoy in this country and commit to its advancement instead of shrugging everything off on third world countries, becuase before long we may be headed in just that direction. Nobody's asking to build a new ATL here, just a single runway airport with a beautiful new terminal, that has the ability to bring a wealth of money into your community... and don't worry we'll sound proof your little popcycle stick homes so you don't have to hear the big bad airplanes.....and i now present to you the typically ignorant american citizen more commonly known as the general public. They ought to make you people pass a competency test before you can vote on issues like this!

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jack 2 years, 9 months ago

Satire at its finest! Good job, BOB!

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

Bob, We ARE taking responsibility by asking for actual facts that can be proven and we get condescending diatribes, after a while we open minded people know if the facts to support the case existed – they would have been presented for all to see by now… Instead we get companies claiming there’s a market for them and collecting resumes for vapor positions at an unapproved project. Will you live at, near or under the "ONE runway" wonder for 20 YEARS? Sorry if being concerned for my neighbors and NOT accepting the position that the only way to make a buck and “Fly Forward" (on make believe accounting no less) is to throw some others under a bus is “backward”... then I guess that why I'm “R” and darn proud of it ... Y'all come back now - hear!

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Karl 2 years, 9 months ago

BOB_69, thanks for saying things in this forum that make sense. I know it's hard to do and be heard over the screaming neemees that know nothing about the subject of modern airports, airlines, and airplanes.

You are spot-on with your description of the attitudes of the 'know-nothings' that regularly spout whatever 'anti-' message they are told to regurgitate here.

If only some of them would actually listen. The sky will not fall and the world will not end if Briscoe has limited scheduled service. Neither will you be run out of your homes by noise. The taxpayers will be protected against financial hardship by performance bonds required of any firm that gets the privatization contract.

To you 'anti-'s', instead of arguing using nothing more than emotion, do a little research and understand the facts. You will change your mind if you do this. But I think you would rather continue your 'anti' stance and be wrong than do the research and become right and admit you were wrong.

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

WE understand the facts and the lack of “real” proof offered by those who are so “annoyed with the pesky know nothings”. Each time a poster uses this tactic, we understand it’s because the truth is NOT entirely on the pro expansion side. Gwinnett will surely NOT go away – that’s true, but it will EVOLVE into a “pass through” location at best. At worst, the county will be required to maintain whatever NEW operations are underway and the BONDS will not cover ALL the real costs to the county, should a default occur and that means taxpayers are on the hook - period. Hundreds of thousands of homes were built here when it was CLEARLY understood that Briscoe would remain General Aviation. These are facts and areas of concern that no amount of “questioning the intelligence” of those against expansion will deflect - though it’s tried endlessly, please up the game

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CD 2 years, 9 months ago

Yep. The regional airlines: A bastion of technologically advanced aircraft. The truth: the last dumping ground for aged, several-times off-leased MD-80 series aircraft.

Yep. Major airlines moving on in. The truth: Delta has stated they want to part of Briscoe. They have their infrastructure at HJA.

Yep. Competition will bring ticket costs down. The truth: Since when did airports compete? Airlines "compete" and they, in reality, have no need to "compete". This is an oligopoly. Pay the oligopoly's rates or don't fly.

Yep. The airport will create 9876548967096 jobs. The truth: A scattering of minimum wadge jobs will be created: baggage handler, ticket agent, etc.

Who's smiling all the way to the bank? The developers, the builders, and the political cronies.

Who's frowning as they pick up the tab for the failed experiment: The TAXPAYER.

No thanks.

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BOB_69 2 years, 9 months ago

Yes actually I would love to live under flight paths and near airports, that are heavily regulated by the FAA for noise abatement procedures, because of crying citizens such as yourselves. Which are the same airports that will soon receive "NextGen" (Google It) limited power continuos descent approaches that will virtually eliminate all of your concerns. But then again I try to have a positive outlook on the growth of areas and the advancement of technologies such as aviation. But then again there will always be people such as you, like the ones who criticized and taunted Orville and Wilbur saying they were wasting their time. Fortunately for the rest of us we moved on, which is what it looks like your city officials are doing sunshine. And yes you are right airports can rarely compete, but airlines do. The problem would be when one airline becomes such a large majority stake holder that they can eliminate the competition from ever moving in. Oh and by the way there are other major air carriers besides Delta, but I suppose living in Georgia you'd have no other knowledge of any. You people think Atlanta is everything. Do you understand why Southwest BOUGHT Air Tran....to get to the ATL market, because there was no other airport for them to compete! They BOUGHT an airline! No, no competition there. And when they officially start service, keep an eye on those air fares, see what that competition does for the traveling public. MD-80 regional jets, really? Thats what you're going to go with? What regional carrier flys those? MD-80's are on their way out of service, check the facts. American is the last big operator of those besides Allegiant, neither of which I would call a "regional". The entire future of the air carrier industry is headed towards smaller, quieter, and more fuel efficient aircraft, such as the Bombardier C-Series, the Mitsubishi RJ, Embraer RJ's, Sukhoi Superjets, Boeing 737 Max and the Airbus NEO. Stop looking at yesterday and what used to be and plan for the future, look at whats coming. No one can get into ATL to compete because Delta won't let them. If you gave these other air carriers an opportunity at some of the market share they wouldn't hesitate to take it. Give the industry a chance. You people obviosuly know nothing of aviation other than what the media feeds you. You ought to do something for yourself and do a little research on the story of Love Field in Dallas with a little startup airline called Southwest. Could be super enlightening. Oh and the scattering of minimum wage jobs who all have to managers who report to other managers and VP's and Directors...yeah all minimum wage, your right.

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

Bob "Yes actually I would love to live under flight paths and near airports" this would lead one to believe YOU don't currently. Why is that? Could it possibly be that all these abatements always LAG after long drawn out studies? That they have significant costs associated with them?
This expansion issue was first addressed in the 1990s by the county residents and stopped. Did the Gwinnett County Government, through its Planning and Zoning Department, adjust its 2010, 2020 or even the 2030 central planning maps to reflect the possible expansion down the road - so realtors and property owners would really know what they would have as neighbors? Life by a Municipal general aviation airfield DOES NOT guarantee conversion to commercial passenger traffic as 737s and 757s are a far cry from a Cessna or even a Learjet. Of course, looking to the future, if we opened Briscoe to commercial passenger traffic, there would be no way to block a new upstart airline that brought all those MD80s from operating here now would there?

It’s always easy to OVERSTATE the POTENTIAL positives when there are NO concrete operations to directly compare to - remember we have been told we are the FIRST for this great opportunity’s business model. Why even some backward engineering types would quietly advise you NOT to buy a 1.0 release of anything, but wait for the revisions that will surely follow. So now we get to job claims of 20 K or more, that’s the SAME number of direct jobs for the Keystone pipeline that would span the nation from Canada to Louisiana. Who are we KIDDING? While JOBs are indeed a worthy goal, but how much will "they" cost us INDIRECTLY in undocumented county costs? To get flights in we will possibly have to co-ordinate flight slots (revenue sharing) with Hartsfield. To truly operate, we would need a direct MARTA link to Hartsfield – check your Texas examples concerning mass transit and the Dallas airport “errors”.

Since Texas is on the table, go look at Collin TX and all the fun they’ve had on the road since 2002 to get commercial traffic there which may POSSIBLY occur in 2012. Don’t forget to view the NEGATIVE numbers and increased tax dollar subsidies, all the while being told it would pay off. Check out Gainesville FL (the city with the University of FLORIDA) and its private operator / leasee bankruptcies and how long they got to deal with the fallout. YES they have jet traffic now and operate on the outskirts, NOT like us - but just see how many jobs were created there. In short, this isn't a financial LOCK by means of measurement.

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

Others that are less than thrilled remember the recent history of HOW the county kitty has been spent. So let’s pick another item that would set the world on fire, the Gwinnett Stadium. Has it produced anything like the MASSIVE indirect investment that was proclaimed? It certainly ran over budget and during the “in secret” negotiations, our leaders didn’t manage to extract the investment amounts the Braves publicly offered the city of Richmond to build a new stadium in VA.

Sadly the “Pro” position seems to be dominated by those who look down on those who don’t agree with them, while being unable to address or eliminate the concerns raised. (Which inadvertently means those concerns have merit) Open minders will tarry on trying to be sure that ALL areas are addressed, because it seems we are RUSHING down a path without following the advice we have paid so dearly for already. The Airline industry isn’t going away and if Briscoe is such major value, REAL suitors will be around when the proper vetting has been done. BUT it really looks like this has to be done before the 2012 elections and that in itself indicates we are really headed to a bad deal - regardless of the Rs or the Ds involved. Remember, Briscoe currently runs at a surplus in this ravaged economy – how often can you point to that?

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CD 2 years, 9 months ago

Bob, I know the airlines constantly look out for the public. In so many ways. Why, just as our BOC does. It's all about the public good. It always is. Perhaps you should drive by HJA sometimes.....and listen. Then, for kicks, go home and watch the Frontline story they did not too long ago about the wonderful, regional carriers. I'm sure the story could still be accessed online.

I just have one question: you must have extra room in your freezer. Do you plan to purchase a larger unit or just unthaw a few stacks of cash sitting there? I know our BOC friends must be mulling this quandary now.

Bannister-Kenerly International. Gotta love it.

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BOB_69 2 years, 9 months ago

One would believe correct! I don’t actually live under a flight path, and do you know why? Because my friend, for some idiotic reason everyone in this state seems to be okay with driving all the way to ATLANTA to go anywhere. Isn’t it amazing…think of all the wonderful people in this highly educated, techno savvy state, and yet they all seem to be okay with hours of driving through construction filled roads, and people trying to run you over at 90mph while talking and texting on cell phones no less, just to catch a flight to anywhere. But it’s okay because here in “JAWJA” all them there big highways lead straight to Atlanta so its okay.

You see everywhere I’ve ever lived has had aircraft flying over, personally as an advocate of aviation, I enjoy it. And for those that don’t it was an easy tradeoff for the ability to be at an airport in 20 minutes or less that could easily put me into the air transportation system, and get me anywhere in the world. But don’t worry, we won’t confuse you folk with that fancy talk no more. And by the way Mr. 737 and 757, although I will admit a 737 can easily operate on the current 6000ft strip I highly doubt you’d ever see a 757 unless it’s a charter which wouldn’t be more than you see know. Also on the topic of aircraft type, the noise from a 737 is hardly any different and probably quieter than what you hear from the private jets currently operating. And with almost 250 based aircraft and 156 daily operations of which 57% are transient don’t tell me you don’t have old Lears and other low bypass jets roaring down the runway. Have you heard the difference between a Lear jet and a 737, obviously not. And YES, you can stop and limit aircraft times and departures and operating times and types of aircraft operating, especially in heavily suburbanized areas. Approach and departure routes are changed and modified; grants are provided for sound proofing. Have you ever even seen the research and data compiled to address noise abatement issues, I’m guessing no. You should really look that up. And please lets not compare and airport to a pipeline that’s just ignorant, an airport is operated just like a city within itself and the job structure is drastically different that a pipeline sunshine.

And I’m sorry for being the positive one; here I’d just rather not dump on the world and everything that’s wrong with it and the current economy. I’d rather pick up my crap and move on so we don’t have to sit in this “ish” pit for another ten years. But instead you find it so easy to sit on the sidelines beer in hand and complain about everything that’s wrong, yet you want no changes? In 20 years when Atlanta is 8 runways strong and the rest of this state is living below the poverty level, you tell me how that worked out for you.

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BOB_69 2 years, 9 months ago

Gainesville! HA, are you kidding me? A bunch of drunken college kids? Is that your demographic for an unsuccessful airport? I could have told you that was going to fail before it ever started. You’ve never been to Gainesville, otherwise you’d know the closest thing or market base to Gainesville is the Tampa Bay Area. The Tampa Bay Area has THREE International Airports. Gainesville had no chance. But the hillbillies didn’t understand air service either, because they seemed to have thought the drunken college kids were really going to work out well, apparently you must have too.

Frontline stories about the regionals, there’s a real fact finder, 60 minutes is good too. And I suppose you watched Super Size Me and blaming McDonalds for the country’s obesity problem sounded good to you to huh. Let’s learn to take some responsibility for ourselves. Are there some sketchy regional operators out there, abso-freaking-lutely; just as much as there are ones that run fine. The fact is the way our air system has worked since airline deregulation means we have to have regionals. So rather than complain and try to put a stop to everything lets fix it and move on. That’s why this state is stuck in this 1950’s mentality, you people can move on.

And of course the airlines don’t look out for the public, they are a business, but within that business there is fierce competition and from that competition, cost is driven down. The airlines add perks and whatever else it takes to maintain a customer base. Who the heck would have ever thought there would be free internet on an airplane, but its there, and why is it there, who started it and why do they almost all have it? Open your eyes and quite your griping.

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BOB_69 2 years, 9 months ago

“To get flights in we will possibly have to co-ordinate flight slots (revenue sharing) with Hartsfield. To truly operate, we would need a direct MARTA link to Hartsfield” Okay you just need to stop, where do you come up with this? Lets pretend we’re and airport director…why would I want to have a direct rail service to my competing airport? Moreover why would I have to revenue share with them? Coordinate flight slots? Do they do that now for your GA (general aviation) traffic? I’m not an air traffic controller here but what would that have to do with revenue? If American wanted to move their American Eagle “regionals” operations to Briscoe, what would that have to do with anything you just stated?

This isn’t the airport trying to work with ATL, and this isn’t the airport trying to become the next ATL. This is the airport seeing that ATL is busting at the seams and setting a goal to fill the niche that catches that excess that ATL can’t handle…at a completely separate airport. I’m not going to ask Delta to move their operations, I’m going to tell American and U.S. Airways and United, you can operate your RJ (regional jet) service here out of my airport with no delays and half the cost, and no more jumping through hopes for Delta, meanwhile the community reaps the benefits of having sustainable air service and the financial benefit it brings.

You know what else is crappy, and really hypocritical, I’m willing to bet the airport has been there quite a while. And it probably has been growing since day #1, and now, because you’ve moved in you think you have the right to manage something that was there before you. Hmm, that kind of sounds like the discovery of this whole country. Let’s discover it, call it mine, and take all these Indians to prisons called reservations and move them red people outta my new land, yeah let’s take about preserving YOUR quality of life!!!

LET’S SEE THOSE PROPOSALS COUNCILMAN!

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Karl 2 years, 9 months ago

Amen. Preach it BOB-69

I'm with you all the way. You're saying the truth to those who want to stick their fingers in their ears and go "lalalalala I don't want to listen'

You are right BOB-69 and these others are not.

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R 2 years, 8 months ago

Just remember, Jim Jones" Preached it" too - right to the end...

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Falco 2 years, 9 months ago

Gwinnett County should move forward with privatization and commercial service at Briscoe.

We need the jobs that privatization will bring, and the community needs this huge shot in the arm to move forward. Our county is losing money on Briscoe right now. It's time to stop losing money on this and start making it a useful asset for taxpayers.

We should move forward.

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R 2 years, 8 months ago

Falco Heres the VERY information that proves your position FALSE. Briscoe is running a surplus right now in 2011, this is a demonstrable fact.

So I don't know if your goal is to up your posting returns in a GOOGLE search or not but truth is a causality.

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

There are many airfields in the area where you could reside under the flight path so this statement seems irrelevant.

“The noise from a 737 is hardly any different and probably quieter”. Sorry “Probably” just doesn’t cut it.

“And YES, you can stop and limit aircraft times and departures and operating times and types of aircraft operating, especially in heavily suburbanized areas.” IMG has already disagreed with this statement TWICE in public.

The comparison of the Airport to a Pipeline was directly related to the “number of jobs created claim” and DIRECTLY on point. Uncomfortable in light of claims made to date by Propeller and its champions, but factual.

Under the proposed plan it’s a reliever to Hartsfield, so Gwinnett will be operated completely in an independent bubble? It’s really going to remain a one runway facility and viable as such?

Actually I have been here serveral times in fact, Gainesville FL was one of many examples due to field size and traffic type and didn’t have a chance? - Its approximately 100 miles from Tampa, Hartsfield is approximately 40 miles from Briscoe.

You don’t appear to know how long Briscoe has been around so you must be a newbie of sorts, that’s ok, you can simply blow by the concerns as posted. Besides some of us actually paid off the very bonds that developed it so they would have NO recourse or vested interest? Why should those who are concerned just move on? That would appear to be the natural reply by one who had been caught with their hands in a “cookie jar” of sorts. Sound proofing residential buildings AFTER the fact with FREE government money? That’s progress in quality of life?

In closing, you can get as condescending as you wish because it just galvanizes those who have issues with how this project is being handled. If this really were the best option of the decade, we would be getting reasoned explanations and since we can only do this one time – it’s got to done right - if at all.

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T 2 years, 9 months ago

Mr. R you stated "737s and 757s are a far cry from a Cessna or even a Learjet". I bet you didn't know a Lear 25 flies out of Gwinnett County almost daily. It is much louder than a 737. Come out to the airport one day and witness it for yourself.

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Falco 2 years, 9 months ago

That's true.

"R" doesn't know what he is talking about, and he just regurgitates what he reads from biased sources who like to frighten people for their own political benefit.

Let's move forward on the airport. Gwinnett needs the economic development and new jobs.

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CD 2 years, 9 months ago

Please list the jobs, with titles, with the applicable salary this fiasco will create. Beyond that, 50+ lears are not flying out of Briscoe daily and I doubt that will ever happen. With scheduled service, aircraft (737's alone) create anywhere from 85-100 dB of noise depending on load, runway conditions, etc. Flyover at 1000 feet is 100+ dB. A busy street as I recall is 70-75 dB. Beyond that, you have the probability of a regional, at best, moving in with horrific safety records. Most of the airline crashes in recent history were actually regionals "clothed" in their "partners" colors, whether Delta, AMR, etc.

Same old non-substantiated hype and lies: 1) What noise--"them there is Republiconian planes and noise and such so there ain't no noise."--the gluttonous delegation 2) This will create 49857634986743896 jobs. 3) This will create 3895472349867 in revenue. 4) We need this for growth.

So on and so forth. No thanks. Why look at our wonderful regional golf course that has worked out so well for the taxpayer. With the BOC still nursing that fiasco, I can just imagine how the new airport would turn out.

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

T – While you would be correct in the position that I don’t have every model number ID that flies out of Briscoe in my computer, I have been out to Briscoe quite a bit at many different times of day, actually maybe more than many proponents (that are not professionals in the business) at this point. I've also traveled for business to or from many of the airports that are being held up as models for us to emulate, it’s not all big bucks and beauty - A JET? as in “one in a 24 hour period” ? This wouldn’t by chance be a Medivac type? Again DEFLECTION doesn't "fly".

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R 2 years, 9 months ago

As to Gainesville FL. where folks like Bob_69 clearly saw failure but the government pressed on. Did the civic leaders intentionally set out to create a failure at the start? Did they ignore the consul some appear to believe was so clearly available at the time to not continue down the path they had chosen?

Shouldn’t that be something we in Gwinnett should be concerned with - in part due to the reports we have seen right here?

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